Robb Wolf, a former research biochemist is the New York Times Best Selling author of The Paleo Solution – The Original Human Diet.

A student of Prof. Loren Cordain, author of The Paleo Diet, Robb has transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around the world via his top ranked iTunes podcast, book and seminars.

  • What is the paleo diet?
  • What is personalized nutrition?
  • We get a different metabolic response from different foods!

Links from today’s show:
Wired to Eat Book


0:00take back your health now episode 24
0:04you’re listening to the take back your
0:07house now podcast the show that
0:09interviews the top doctors athletes
0:11trainers and entrepreneurs to help you
0:14find the holy grail of health now here’s
0:17your host dr. dan Margolin hi this is
0:22dr. dan Margolin with another segment of
0:25take back your help now where we pull
0:27out all the stops in search of helps
0:29holy grill that we are really excited
0:31today to have robble a former research
0:35biochemist and the New York Times
0:36bestselling author of the paleo solution
0:39the original human diet is a student of
0:43Professor Warren Cordain author of the
0:46Paleo diet
0:47rob has transformed the lives of
0:48hundreds of thousands of people around
0:50the world via his top-ranked itunes
0:53podcast book and seminars Rob welcome to
0:57the show sir
0:58good thinkstock with a bio like that I
1:00feel like I should be taller than five
1:02foot nine but thank you understood it is
1:05awesome it is also what you’re doing so
1:06just go to a little understanding like
1:09what first got you interested in the
1:12Paleo diet just go into that a little
1:13bit we know the interest was originally
1:16was just health and performance to
1:18general like I was a competitive our
1:21lifter competitive Thai boxer in my
1:23youth and I was raised in a household
1:27that both parents were pretty sick both
1:29of them smoke both of them ended up
1:31developing type 2 diabetes in the late
1:33thirties early forties and I just had
1:35kind of a sneaky suspicion that there
1:37was probably a better way to go about
1:39doing things and in that effort to
1:42figure things out i did a lot of dietary
1:44experimentation and one of the paths
1:47that I went down with a really high carb
1:49low fat kind of a vegetarian way of
1:52eating and for me and my physiology and
1:55maybe it is because um mainly caveman
1:57I’m not totally sure but it it running
2:00really didn’t work very well for me I
2:02ended up with ulcerative colitis and a
2:04lot of GI problems some very disordered
2:06blood lipids and it was kind of a moment
2:10of desperation that this idea of a
2:13Haley or an ancestral type diet kind of
2:15got on my radar this was back in
2:17nineteen eighty-eight when i was doing
2:18just kind of benchtop research related
2:21to lipid metabolism cancer in
2:25autoimmunity and so this idea got my my
2:28radar and i started poking around a
2:30little bit there was this newfangled
2:32search engine called google at that time
2:34and i put you know paleo diet into the
2:36search engine and I found a couple of
2:39folks like Loren Cordain and Arthur
2:41Devaney and it was just really off to
2:45the races from there and i implemented
2:47what was then kind of a low-carb paleo
2:50type diet and i gotta say within days
2:53the ulcerative colitis symptoms were
2:56completely resolved within a matter of
2:57weeks i had regained all the way that I
3:00had lost i was still eating like about
3:024,000 calories a day trying to maintain
3:04my weight but I had such terrible
3:06malabsorption that I was dead i walk
3:08around normally about a hundred
3:09seventy-five pounds reasonably fit and
3:11lean I would sound 230 pounds due to
3:14melt all my god what were you eating
3:16like a lot of bread or what we’ll find
3:18is like you know and that’s kind of a
3:20funny thing i went and checked out like
3:22the Georgia shallow macrobiotic
3:24institute and I was you know soaking and
3:26sprouting my grains and legumes and you
3:30know cooking them you know properly and
3:32write that is your bye-bye old you know
3:35accounts properly but is you know from
3:38my physiology again you know mainly
3:41northern European Scottish Swedish being
3:44the kind of Maine derivatives that
3:47approach just really did not work for me
3:50here or at least not at that point in my
3:53life and so this weekend my my nutrition
3:57was pretty profound at this
3:58at that point I was really thinking
4:00about a a career in medicine or
4:03potentially pursuing a research track
4:05but when I found this paleo diet concept
4:09the idea of going to medical school
4:11seemed really a you know turning left to
4:15turn right like i was going to spend
4:17eight years learning about disease and
4:19pathology and mainly within a
4:21the disease and pathology kind of
4:23framework when I really felt like at
4:25this this operating system that really
4:29thought about sleep food exercise the
4:32gut biome and RR greater you know kind
4:34of human community
4:36those were the pillars of Health and
4:37that’s what you need to focus on and it
4:39didn’t seem like the the doctors that I
4:42was shadowing didn’t seem like they had
4:44a whole lot of time to talk about that
4:45stuff you know and this was even before
4:47the medical system has shifted or slit
4:50as much as it has you know such that uh
4:53you know doctors have like five maybe
4:55ten minutes with a with a patient
4:56there’s really not much higher and
4:58deeper for deep vetting and so I did
5:00something kind of wacky I i/o happened
5:04to been one of the first people to find
5:06this thing called profit online back in
5:092000-2001 and a coat on there
5:12yeah I interested kelly starrett I think
5:14he was one of the founders or something
5:17of that as well really becoming quite a
5:19bit later but i think i actually had i
5:22co-founded the first and fourth crossfit
5:24affiliate gyms in the world i actually
5:26wrote the first affiliate inquiry email
5:29ever and so it in for the people that
5:32like CrossFit they think that’s kind of
5:34cool for the people that dislike
5:35CrossFit and I’m kind of the Antichrist
5:37but it’s about important in mind the
5:41broadcaster people like it so you’re
5:43ok perfect for you know was interesting
5:46of running a gym where you had this good
5:49exercise modality you had a really
5:51really powerful supportive community and
5:54I had this opportunity to you know talk
5:57to people about food and sleep and
6:00circadian rhythm we had a really huge
6:03impact on the people that we worked with
6:05him within about two years of opening
6:08the gym we were picked by what i meant
6:10health as one of the top 30 gyms in
6:14America so we we started really making
6:16some pretty good waves you know using
6:18this paleo diet or ancestral health
6:20approach which which was it just the
6:22food it was community and sleep and so
6:25do period and you know modulating stress
6:28levels and all that type of stuff so how
6:31did you know go
6:32going to that also first we’ll pay you
6:33what does that mean the word paleo
6:35itself is that reference and what was
6:37that reference you you know it’s a
6:39holdover from the research of
6:42anthropologists and archaeologists from
6:44the early nineteen hundreds for the most
6:47part these folks notice that these
6:50hunter-gatherer groups that they ate
6:53what we would call a paleo type diet
6:54which there’s not actually one flavor of
6:57that it’s very different depending on if
6:59you live near the Arctic Circle vs like
7:01the Amazon rainforest but it was
7:04basically you know wild-caught foods
7:06route shoots tubers fruits vegetables
7:09seasonal variation and whatnot but it
7:12was in an observation that these folks
7:15despite not having modern Western
7:18medical interventions these folks were
7:21pretty darn healthy like they seem to be
7:23largely devoid of cardiovascular disease
7:26and got very low rates of of cancer type
7:292 diabetes was largely unheard of until
7:32they started shifting and eating a a
7:35more westernized diet so the term paleo
7:38recipe refers to our Paleolithic
7:40ancestors which preceded the Neolithic
7:43which was the domestication of grains
7:46and and cereal crops animals kind of
7:49living option city-states and and all
7:52that type of stuff but you know it’s um
7:53it’s an important in and I think
7:56worthwhile point to make because some
7:57people have almost like a a rash like
8:01response just hearing the term paleo
8:03diet but they’re not really too sure you
8:05know where the term comes from it’s not
8:07something that any one person cooked up
8:09it was just a observation on the part of
8:12lots of our it
8:14archaeologists and anthropologists that
8:16are three westernized ancestors were
8:20pretty darn healthy again despite not
8:23having access to modern you know Western
8:26medical interventions and so there was a
8:28suggestion made by a physician boyd
8:32eaton back in 1986 he wrote a paper for
8:35the British Medical Journal which made
8:37the case that if we were able to take
8:38all the good things that we have about
8:40modern medicine but then look at health
8:43maintenance from the perspective of our
8:45Paleolithic ancestors that we might have
8:47something really powerful there we know
8:49it’s interesting you say that you know
8:51they were so healthy back and we can you
8:52speak with the medical professionals now
8:55and a lot of even patients you know the
8:57concept is that back then it was
8:59everybody was sick and they needed
9:00medicine and actually what the truth is
9:03when you do look back in there was not
9:04the hypertension and diabetes the heart
9:07attack all those things really are or
9:09more of the modern error
9:11am I correct that is absolutely and you
9:13know it’s it’s um it’s observational you
9:16know you can’t you can’t hundred percent
9:18hang your hat on it but I i think that
9:20it’s really really interesting you know
9:22and it’s a great place to at least start
9:24having a conversation around this topic
9:27you know if you can look at groups of
9:29folks who really don’t show the types of
9:32very expensive Western degenerative
9:35diseases that we were really quite
9:38afflicted by in that seem to be
9:40increasing at exponential rates so you
9:42know there’s at some point the the just
9:46basic medical costs around this story
9:48are really going to force folks to to
9:50reevaluate this the the way that we
9:53fundamentally tackle medicine like I
9:55don’t think we’re going to be able to
9:57magic bullet ourselves out of type 2
10:01diabetes neurodegenerative disease
10:03I i wrote a piece for a separate book
10:06that i’ve been working on it kind of
10:07made the case that the discovery of
10:11antibiotics may have so influenced
10:13medicine that we really believe that
10:15there was a magic bullet for everything
10:17because Brianna biotic era if you got a
10:20scratch on that thing became infected it
10:23was a pretty good chance you are either
10:24going to lose the the limb or you might
10:26die her and also people really don’t
10:29appreciate what a profound influence
10:32antibiotics were on modern medicine and
10:36in this was the time then when you know
10:39the term magic bullet was was claimed it
10:41was kind of that Walt Disney nineteen
10:43fifties you know period where it wasn’t
10:46you know science better the nature and
10:48they kind of forgot that science is
10:49actually a discovery of nature and so on
10:52you know we really thought that we were
10:54going to figure out some way to
10:56circumvent the the natural world and
10:59then it was right around this time that
11:00we really characterize the DNA double
11:02helix and so that was just thought that
11:05if we just understand their genetics
11:07will have this all figured out and then
11:08we had the human genome project and we
11:11made some discoveries but it’s been
11:13really lackluster in the way that it has
11:16influenced medicine like medicine really
11:17hasn’t changed even though we understand
11:20the human genome added a deep level and
11:22then we discovered epigenetics which is
11:25the way that these genes get turned on
11:26and off and that’s another layer to the
11:29onion but the way that you influence
11:31these things is kind of at the the
11:33macro-level sleep
11:35photo period food exercise community
11:38stress levels in the food systems are so
11:42complex you can’t try to manage them in
11:46a point-by-point fashion like you’ve
11:48really just got to figure out something
11:50that’s kind of a holistic macroscopic
11:52view and that’s the way that you’ve got
11:54to tackle this stuff if you want to you
11:56know stack the deck in your favor so I’m
11:59going to come back to that in just a
12:01second i ask you is very silly question
12:03to start to clear up so when you’re
12:06talking about a people died and you’re
12:07comparing it to like a Mediterranean
12:10diet is my understanding here is that
12:12you’re looking at a much more exterior
12:14view point and actually looking at all
12:16the other factors that would influence
12:18this individual versus let me just
12:20explain the difference to me a little
12:22bit because the difference between like
12:23a paleo in the Mediterranean type Diana
12:25Dors yeah yeah yeah I I mean they could
12:28end up being very very similar but
12:31generally you’re going to see in in the
12:33place in the Mediterranean diet where
12:35you would see grains legumes and dairy
12:38you would see more fruits vegetables and
12:41nuts basically would be the you know
12:44paleo diet kind of analogy but you would
12:47still see largely grass-fed meat while
12:50caught seafood seasonal fruits and
12:53vegetables things like olive oil and all
12:56the other are certainly good to go and
12:58this is one of the unfortunate
13:00developments within the Paleo diet
13:03concept is it kind of it was always at
13:06least in my mind it was always intended
13:08to be a template for a starting point
13:11and what it turned into was kind of
13:13religious doctrine where people spend
13:15more time asking is this paleo then
13:18asking is this a good option for me and
13:21all okay and I’m so with you know it a
13:24it needed something almost like the you
13:27know the Protestant Reformation or
13:29something like that you know I’m coming
13:31in and and you know really simplify this
13:35story because you yet you know people
13:37really kind of losing their minds
13:39because on the one hand you’re not
13:41supposed to eat legumes but yet green
13:43beans are ok but green beans or a lego
13:45maybe you know what I mean it just
13:46becomes a really onerous a set of rules
13:52to follow instead of it just being kind
13:54of a simple template that we might start
13:56a little bit conservative you know maybe
13:59we start with no grains no legs no dairy
14:01particularly if somebody has GI problems
14:03are in autoimmune disease or something
14:05like that but then once we get our shelf
14:08moving in a favorable direction we
14:09really should experiment with you know
14:12is broader variety of foods as we can
14:14and just kind of map what we do well
14:16with and what are the things that we
14:17know might do better to avoid while so
14:20this is really a very uh I guess
14:23personalized approach me when you’re
14:25well let me just step back for one
14:27second what I’m sure a lot of people
14:29want to know the difference between a
14:31wire to eat the new book and original
14:34paleo solution that you wrote in 2010
14:36with what is the difference between
14:38those two look at out of those to
14:40compare it will you do for one thing the
14:43wired to eat i had the benefit of six
14:46almost seven years of additional
14:48experience working with people and you
14:50know after the the first books been
14:52really successful like and I’m very very
14:54fortunate but under the success is just
14:57that folks would Bible can follow the
14:59program and get a lot of benefit a lot
15:03of results and then they would end up
15:04buying more books and giving it to
15:06friends and family and stuff like that
15:07and so you know there’s a there there
15:10was kind of a success breeds success
15:12from that perspective but they’re there
15:14were a couple of things that were
15:15problematic with the paleo concept and
15:18the 1i was just kind of talking about
15:20that people started
15:22really you know turning the paleo
15:24concept into kind of religious doctor
15:27and they weren’t really thinking things
15:28through because you could make a case
15:30that coffee isn’t paleo but when you
15:34look at the research on coffee it is
15:37really hard to find anything negative
15:40about coffee now you can drink too much
15:42it can disturb your sleep and all that
15:44type of stuff but we have both
15:46epidemiological studies and also some
15:48good human trials where coffee
15:51consumption tea consumption like it’s a
15:54net win but it’s not quote paleo you
15:56know so okay you know there’s a lot to
15:59be said about that and then you know
16:02there is out in the the broader world
16:05folks that have heard of this paleo diet
16:08concept like they literally they get
16:10kind of like an immune response like it
16:11gives them a rash
16:12they just don’t even want to think about
16:13it don’t want to talk about it but
16:16instead away i was thinking about that
16:18and I was also thinking about another
16:20you know what was the area that I saw
16:22folks are tripped up by this experience
16:27of trying to change their life trying to
16:29change their eating and there seemed to
16:31be a really consistent pattern that
16:33emerged and it was that people felt a
16:36lot of guilt around the the notion that
16:39it was hard to make these changes in the
16:42back of my head I was always thinking
16:43well it should be hard i mean we’re
16:46wired for a completely different way of
16:47living like to expect that you wouldn’t
16:51find like a plate of nachos followed by
16:54a big bowl of ice cream really enticing
16:57and you you know that would be enticing
16:58every day a week like that that’s silly
17:01to expect that wouldn’t be the case in
17:03which are silly to expected you know
17:06although pork loin and salad and
17:08asparagus is tasty it’s not as tasty is
17:11is nachos an ice cream you know I mean
17:13there’s the basic reality there so I saw
17:16a lot of people that were failing
17:18because they would get into the process
17:20and then they were kind of run aground
17:22because it was hard and they felt like
17:25it shouldn’t be hard and a a encountered
17:29of paper that was really amazing and I’m
17:31blanking on the exact
17:32the name of the paper but it was talking
17:35about brain evolution and the omnivore’s
17:37real dilemma and it just made this point
17:40that we are opportunistic omnivores that
17:43in our art our past and really any
17:45organism that doesn’t live in you know
17:48with the third the ease that we have
17:52within our modern world you know I our
17:54pets are kinda I guess the only other
17:56example but everything on the planet
17:58that moves that hunter-gatherers or
18:00forages it needs to get as much energy
18:03as possible
18:04burning as little as possible and in
18:07this is called optimal foraging
18:08strategies and she’s just baked in the
18:11cake it it’s simply economic you know i
18:14mean it is how you you check to see if
18:16your business is with you know
18:18functioning there are sharks are
18:19generating more than what you’re
18:21spending in any organism that
18:23consistently spends more than it gets
18:26its gonna die so on so we are
18:29fundamentally genetically wired to eat
18:32more and move less but what are the
18:35recommendations that are made from the
18:37medical establishment particularly
18:38dietitians to solve your weight problems
18:41all you need to do is eat less and move
18:44more the track is diametrically opposed
18:47to our are fundamental genetic wiring
18:49and this is why that that line of
18:52reasoning fails and it sets people up
18:54for failure because they feel like man
18:56if I was just better i was just a a
18:58better person if I didn’t have this
19:00moral failing and maybe I would be able
19:02to you know affect these changes but the
19:05the fundamental story is that we are
19:08wired for a different way of living and
19:10you’ve got to figure out nutritional
19:13strategies such that the food that you
19:15ve are satisfying enough that you you
19:18really don’t you know go hold up a mini
19:21Martin in eat everything in the snack
19:23aisle but you know but it’s got to be
19:26livable over the long haul and a lot of
19:30people take these losses and these small
19:33loss and they just give up the diet that
19:34point there had mcdonalds absolutely you
19:37know there is it in i actually get into
19:39the topic of cheating in the book and I
19:42think I’ve got a little bit of a
19:44different angle on that I soon as
19:48someone asked me like how when can I
19:50cheat or you know what do you think
19:53about cheat meals and stuff like that
19:54like my shackles just go up immediately
19:56because I’m like okay where were in the
19:59thick of it with this page and a so I I
20:03wasn’t entirely sure why this got my my
20:06goat every time i heard it was one thing
20:09was with consistent with the person who
20:12asked that question was going to be a
20:13pain in the backside like there will do
20:14is just guaranteed guaranteed you know
20:17that I’m gonna happen with them so that
20:19you know one day I actually sat down
20:21like with the etymology of the word
20:24cheat you know like what’s the root word
20:27and what does it really mean and the
20:29word cheat if you look it up and get
20:31like a Webster’s dictionary kind of
20:33definition it’s basically to obtain an
20:36unfair advantage
20:38interesting so if you’re supposed to be
20:42eating a particular way whether tailee
20:45or beginner macrobiotic already know
20:47pick your pick your flavor but then if
20:49you say well I cheated on this diet and
20:52by cheated it usually means that we some
20:54sort of junk food
20:56where’s the unfair advantage there is no
20:58unfair advantage like that you didn’t
21:01know you can cheat on a relationship you
21:03can cheat on your taxes you cheatin you
21:06know golf
21:07there’s no cheating on food there’s
21:08consequences to food that’s it
21:11alpha omega done and if somebody is
21:13going on and on about you know cheat
21:16meals and can you cheat on food then
21:17we’ve got a fundamental problem that’s
21:19really existing on a psychological level
21:21and ok people need to understand you
21:24include you have consequences to the
21:27food that you eat
21:28that’s it and so it is again is just a
21:31baseline if people are focusing on
21:33whether or not they’re cheating on their
21:35diet then were in a psychological place
21:38that we are highly unlikely to succeed
21:40but if we get to a spot where lake
21:43ok I can eat whatever I want but I’m
21:45choosing to eat from category A for the
21:47most part and really avoid categories b
21:50c and d because I understand what the
21:52what the downside is until we make an
21:54informed choice in the
21:56the challenge in all this stuff is that
21:58are our brains are wired up in a way
22:01that are logical forebrain what we do
22:03all this rational processing is quite
22:06separate from the hedonic centers of our
22:09ancient brain where sex and food and
22:12survival are all processed and so that
22:16the challenge though is it you know
22:18taking that understanding but being able
22:20to push it into that emotive part of the
22:23brain and really make that part stick
22:25and that’s where is some things like 30
22:28day reset and and stuff that can help
22:30you get a handle on your neuro
22:32regulation of appetite that can help you
22:36to appreciate simpler meals though that
22:39that’s the way that you can rewire your
22:40appetite and have a higher likelihood of
22:43success but you know it again that down
22:46that notion of cheating is really one of
22:49those wacky like red flags and if I see
22:52somebody talking about that I know that
22:53we’ve got a live one its it has to be
22:55some work
22:56yeah but you also find I’ve got to
22:57imagine that you know people when i was
23:00younger right I could eat anything I
23:01work out all the time I was not a
23:03problem as I’ve gotten older you know my
23:05guts gotten bigger
23:06I’m more interested now do you find that
23:09people wait until they have some
23:11elements or there’s certain things that
23:13drives them to you that you’re getting
23:16people that maybe aren’t quite as
23:18what is that the normal person reading
23:20your book coming to for advice are they
23:22healthy and young or they’ll get older
23:24they’re gonna go into some difficulties
23:25you know why I had two brackets of
23:28people that have followed my work and
23:29the one group is you know is composed of
23:32folks that were largely forgotten or
23:36ignored by medicine and these are the
23:38people that just had years of health
23:41problems that nobody could really figure
23:43out maybe it was related to gut maybe it
23:46was related to autoimmunity there seems
23:48to be systemic inflammation but nothing
23:51fit into those perfect like a cb10
23:54diagnostic criteria and so the person
23:56just kind of you know got kicked along
23:58and when they did something that looked
24:02like a paleo diet or an autoimmune paleo
24:04type approach it was shocking the
24:07results of these people guys
24:09and you know again like they they would
24:11because of social media the timing of
24:13all the stuff is interesting people were
24:15able to blog and people were able to
24:16share experiences on social media and
24:19the cool thing about nutritional
24:21interventions like you can talk to
24:23people about religion or political
24:25affiliations with religion you’ve gotta
24:28die before you figure out whether or not
24:29the person was right or wrong not
24:31political affiliations you know you kind
24:34of have to watch the the time course of
24:36a Empire and see you know the socialism
24:39worker does you no good journalism work
24:41or whatever sir but with a diet it’s 30
24:44days like if you can just just muscle
24:46through 30 days it’s kind of like trying
24:48on a sweater like are you gonna do you
24:50like how it fits is it you know work
24:53that you need to talk i’m going to back
24:54you up totally in my office in treatment
24:56room has a television but they’re all
24:58they’re all on the same circuit right so
25:00if we put on CNN or Fox there’s always
25:03somebody complaining but if we put on
25:05the Food Channel nobody complaints they
25:07just lay there and stare at they loved
25:09it so it is fluent seems to be that
25:11thing that you could discuss with
25:12anybody and it just knows no boundaries
25:14so i really thank you up on that there’s
25:17some at least potential for getting the
25:21person to try it you know Duncan you can
25:23be if you may appeal to their logical
25:26sense and like a man you know you can do
25:28anything for 30 days to give it a shot
25:30and so they give it a shot
25:32you might even guilt people little bit
25:34it’s like a your wife did it for 30 days
25:35later and let you know when it after
25:39that 30-day period folks generally look
25:41feel and perform better if they did
25:43bloodwork before and afterwards that the
25:45no blood lipids look better their
25:47inflammatory markers look better and
25:49then the person can do something really
25:51crazy and that’s just sit back and look
25:53at what they did and ask themselves the
25:56question is the you know the reward
25:58worth the cost you are clearly not
26:01eating the junk food that we all would
26:03like to eat
26:04there’s some costs associated with that
26:06in the same time I’m not here to
26:08proselytize two people to say that they
26:11should or shouldn’t do one thing over
26:12the other but I really you know kind of
26:14my life’s mission is just to let people
26:16know that they’ve got choices if I like
26:19your protest really and
26:20during the people who brought
26:21problematic reading why aren’t you
26:23talking length about personalized
26:25nutrition is this what you’re talking
26:27about what is that and why is that
26:28important this when you go into a little
26:30bit as well yeah you know the
26:31personalized nutrition is is interesting
26:34because on the one hand we have to have
26:36simple stories to try to help people
26:39like if I roll in and somebody you know
26:42they haven’t they believe the real life
26:45like they have a social life and they
26:47don’t think about nutritional
26:48biochemistry collectively the right
26:50there is not a geek and god bless him
26:52for for you know not being a geek but if
26:55they’ve got some health problems are
26:57they want to lose some weight
26:58I’ve got to get them going somehow and
27:00so on the blend hand having a really
27:02simple story to tell whether that paleo
27:05or vegan or high-carb low-fat or high
27:09fat low carb these things are pretty
27:11easy story that give people lane lines
27:15it’s kind of like when you take kids
27:16bowling and they have the kid you know
27:18get bumper lanes that pop up so the ball
27:20can’t go in the gutter like Sarah sure
27:22what you’re doing you know and that
27:24works for a certain cross-section of
27:26folks but inevitably the recommendation
27:29that you make 200 people there’s going
27:32to be some percentage of people that
27:33that recommendation fits and some
27:35percentage that it really doesn’t mean
27:37that it needs some tweaking and in
27:39general we can make this broad statement
27:42is folks will benefit from eating
27:44largely whole unprocessed food like that
27:47that’s a pretty safe spot to start but
27:51then there’s a lot of detail and nuance
27:52in that like I genetically when I had my
27:5523andme testing done based off my
27:59genetics I’m like three hundred percent
28:01more likely than the average person to
28:03develop type 2 diabetes and
28:05internationally both my both of my
28:07parents develop type 2 diabetes in their
28:10thirties and forties and I’ve noticed
28:12hood over the course of time that if I
28:14eat too many carbs whether it’s sweet
28:16potatoes or fruit or rice or what have
28:19um I gained body fat my blood lipids go
28:22sideways and I feel pretty terrible and
28:24you know i have poor blood sugar control
28:26and again like I’m out of that Northern
28:29European stock that was hunter-gatherers
28:32not very long ago like agriculture
28:34arrived in these areas pretty pretty
28:36late in the game the only people that
28:38you would find maybe even more recent
28:40would be Native Americans and we see you
28:42know very very high rates of type 2
28:44diabetes and Native Americans and so you
28:48know there’s some customization that
28:49needs to happen there and so what I try
28:51to do with wired to eat is start folks
28:55on a general pass and we use a 30-day
28:57reset to do that where it’s it’s
28:59basically an anti-inflammatory diet we
29:02get people rewiring the neuro regulation
29:04of appetite they start you know healing
29:07inflammation they healed her gut all if
29:09their sleep and proves and then at the
29:11end of that process we do what’s called
29:13a seven-day carb test where we monitor
29:16our blood sugars and we start testing
29:18different carbohydrate sources and then
29:20based off that were able to get a really
29:22concrete sense of both on a objective
29:25level on the subjective level like how
29:27do you feel after that 50 gram bowl of
29:31what is how it should look like after
29:33that 50 grand bowl bowl of rice and it’s
29:35fascinating so my wife is quite a bit
29:38smaller than I am you know let’s let’s
29:41body weight and everything so you could
29:42make an argument that she should be less
29:45capable of dealing with carbohydrates
29:47than i am but i recently did an
29:49experiment where I was wearing a
29:51continuous blood glucose monitor
29:52basically samples your blood glucose
29:54once a minute for the the duration of
29:56the the test and we ate the same amount
29:59of carbohydrates from rice and it was 50
30:03grams of carbs and it’s basically like a
30:05cup and a quarter of white race and my
30:07blood sugar hit 178 is sky-high I don’t
30:13like absolute hell
30:15it’s gonna really help for about two
30:18days after that
30:19now my wife her blood you’re a think got
30:22to like 128 1 130 for something like
30:25that so you know 40 50 points lower than
30:28what mine was but she’s smaller than I
30:31am she has less muscle mass than i do
30:33but her insulin sensitivity and her
30:35ability to store glucose is dramatically
30:39better than mine was just kind of absurd
30:41that like sheet
30:43and a lowest card paleo but she cheated
30:45way more sweet potatoes and I do more
30:47yams more yuka more through and she does
30:50find on that it but if I hate the way
30:52that she did I would have some problems
30:55and I’ve seen that both on the
30:56subjective level where it’s kinda like
30:58how i feel after meals right ok bad and
31:01the objective level where attempted
31:03blood glucose and so that’s this this
31:05opportunity and this promise of
31:07personalized nutrition where we can go
31:09beyond the one-size-fits-all diets like
31:11we’ve got to have an orienting spot to
31:14start people but then we can’t let them
31:16dig in like a tick in turn that starting
31:19place into a religious doctor in it like
31:21this is the only thing that works you
31:23do you think people subjectively are
31:26going to be drawn to foods that they
31:27need and others are there if I’m being
31:30drawn toward james morrison because I’m
31:32gonna need whatever in there and I can
31:34tolerate better is that is a natural
31:36kind of an inclination towards that are
31:38not really like when you compare
31:40subjected to objective why sense of that
31:43is it the only kind of micronutrient
31:45that we can taste is salt sodium and we
31:49actively seek out sodium most organisms
31:52out the environment seek out sodium
31:54others some really amazing video of Emma
31:56go to Italy that climb the edge of my
32:01seat and yes and they make the salt
32:03crystals other and is totally crazy so
32:05my understanding of this is the in
32:07general what what we are doing is we are
32:11definitely seeking out certain palette
32:13and flavor profiles and it’s a
32:15salty-sweet mommy bitter but baking the
32:21cake if we are eating whole unprocessed
32:23foods historically your your brain just
32:26needed to have um we think about this
32:29less like calories in calories out and
32:32more about information processing when
32:35you eat different foods protein carbs
32:36fat it you know they have different
32:38phytonutrients the turn genes on and off
32:42in different ways we’re getting a very
32:44different metabolic response from am
32:47with some grass-fed butter on it then we
32:50do from a plate of say like just plain
32:52white rice or or just kind of denuded
32:55white bread or so
32:56ok so you know baking the cake
32:58historically if you got a really nice
33:02mix of flavor profiles from whole
33:04unprocessed processed foods just baking
33:07that cake you ended up getting all the
33:10vital nutrients that you needed but what
33:12happens today because we are mostly
33:15foods are stripped of these vital
33:18nutrients in the processing kind of a
33:21situation then you end up seeking out
33:25those flavors but in this is where you
33:28know it’s pretty well understood that
33:29like if people are protein deficient
33:31they will tend to eat more and more and
33:33more food trying to meet a pariah
33:36society level this is a civil manner
33:38that would be sure
33:40yeah no I understand well relevant
33:42ketosis and fasten these are pretty hot
33:44topics in your book why do you have a
33:47chapter devoted to this can talk to tell
33:50folks about the benefit and potential
33:52pitfalls of fasting ketosis like you
33:55know i’m a huge fan of these modalities
33:57I’ve done a lot of work with the Naval
34:00Special Warfare resiliency committee
34:02have gone and spoken to the field teams
34:04in the special boat teams for a number
34:06of years and it’s a huge honor to do
34:08that one of the big topics that I talked
34:10about his traumatic brain injury and
34:12there’s a whole host of
34:13neurodegenerative diseases and also add
34:17a physical trauma traumatic brain injury
34:19that seem to respond remarkably well to
34:22ketogenic diets and fasting and and what
34:24happens in fasting and or a ketogenic
34:27diet once we drop carbohydrate intake
34:30below a certain threshold we can really
34:33produce or release enough glucose to run
34:36the brain
34:37we’ve got lots of body fat even if we’re
34:39reasonably lean folks but body fat
34:42doesn’t move around the body actually
34:43that well and it particularly is is pork
34:47crossing the blood-brain barrier and so
34:48do we start metabolising lots of fat but
34:53when we have a lack of carbohydrate or
34:55or protein kicking get turned into
34:57carbohydrate we start producing these
34:59things called ketone bodies and the
35:01ketone bodies are interesting and that
35:03the water soluble so they can head
35:05throughout the whole body particularly a
35:07passing through the blood-brain barrier
35:09and they carry the energetic kind of
35:12weight that you would see from fat but
35:14they are portable the way that a glucose
35:17molecule it and so it provides an
35:19alternative fuel source for the brain
35:21and someone who is fasted for two days
35:25three days they’re going to have some
35:26decently low blood glucose levels and
35:29reasonably high blood ketone levels and
35:32this is a completely normal state of
35:34affairs there’s nothing dangerous with
35:36this but we’re medical the the medical
35:40scene is kind of gone sideways on this
35:42story is there’s a condition called
35:44ketoacidosis which typically occurs in
35:47type 1 diabetics that are poorly
35:49managing the blood glucose levels and
35:51they become effectively insulin
35:53resistant to the point that they can’t
35:56really get eco-center their cells so
35:58they start producing huge amounts of
36:00ketones and then the ketones rise to
36:03really really very high levels much
36:06higher than what you would see in a a
36:07starvation ketosis state and allen cause
36:11seizures and death so there’s a
36:13legitimate situation where you want you
36:16want to be concerned about ketoacidosis
36:18but what happened is the physicians and
36:21healthcare providers forgot their
36:23biochemistry and forgot that fast in
36:26ketosis or nutritional ketosis which can
36:29be brought about by eating a moderate
36:31protein low carb high fat diet these are
36:33completely different state than
36:35ketoacidosis and there’s the analogy
36:38there is that a diabetic is someone who
36:41has uncontrolled or or poorly controlled
36:44levels of blood glucose and that can
36:46become injurious someone in Aikido
36:48acidotic state is an individual with you
36:52know unhealthful levels of of the ketone
36:55bodies both of those are pathological
36:57states both of those can be mitigated by
37:00a more appropriate dietary approach sure
37:03and it’s a benefit of like being a cake
37:06and a kid ketosis would be i’m just
37:08starting that cancer design girl and
37:10those kind of is that true i mean other
37:12things like that there’s some cancers
37:14which seem to be but political the
37:18endothelial drug derived from a
37:21neurological development and these are
37:23colon prostate glioblastoma astrocyte
37:25brain tumors they appear to respond
37:28pretty favorably to a low carb low
37:31glucose environment there are certain
37:33types of cancers the only run off
37:36glucose and if you can starve them of
37:38glucose there’s some suggestion that
37:40that may as a singular treatment
37:43modality may offer some benefit or if
37:46you were to use conventional therapies
37:48like Tito and rate a chemo and radiation
37:50plus a ketogenic diet those ketone
37:53bodies are actually making the cancer
37:55unstable because it doesn’t have enough
37:58energy you know substrate to to keep it
38:00going and then you hit it with the chemo
38:02and radiation in the end so it could
38:04make the the conventional therapies more
38:07effective supplies are other types of
38:10cancers like malignant melanoma which
38:13doesn’t appear to benefit specifically
38:15from the ketogenic diet intervention
38:19like a ketosis doesn’t seem to benefit
38:22that type of cancer specifically but
38:24interestingly the ketogenic state
38:26actually makes our normal cells more
38:29resilient against things like chemo and
38:31radiation so there’s a potential bit
38:33even though it may not
38:35you know in certain situations
38:36chemoradiation plus keto diet may
38:39directly influenced the the you know the
38:42ability to clear particular types of
38:44cancer in other situations that may just
38:47be that allows the individual to
38:48tolerate the chemo and radiation better
38:50therefore hopefully making those
38:52treatment modalities more applications
38:55were just in the very beginnings of
38:58studying this type of stuff but the the
39:02title of that chapter is hammers drills
39:05in ketosis the one tool your doctor will
39:07never use and i used the analogy that
39:10you know until my dad was a contractor
39:13and although there would be all kinds of
39:15debates and pissing matches about you
39:17know you should do this or you should do
39:18that i noticed that there were some
39:20broad categories like nobody argued
39:23about whether or not you should use a
39:24bandsaw when the screwdriver with the
39:27appropriate tool you know they’re just
39:30but it’s interesting with in nutritional
39:32sciences and medicine there’s huge drama
39:35around whether you should eat a higher
39:37carb diet or a low-carb diet these
39:39things are just tools you know there’s
39:41there’s a plausible reasons for either
39:45approach but there’s just this drama and
39:48this some you know lack of really
39:50understanding and really just
39:51recognizing that these things are tools
39:53and so I go in pretty deep on ketosis
39:56and fasting explain what they are what
39:58the potential benefits are for some
40:00people who are trying to lose
40:02significant significant amount of body
40:04weight they may have some damage or
40:06dysregulation to the hypothalamus that
40:09the only thing that’s going to work is a
40:11ketogenic diet because it it appears to
40:13offer some neuroprotective effects and
40:15so some people have played with
40:17everything they can imagine diet airily
40:19and they don’t succeed until they use a
40:22ketogenic approach now there are other
40:24people who might be crossfitters again
40:27or or you know hard-charging athletes
40:29and they want to lean out a little bit
40:31and they think that a ketogenic diet
40:33would be great because it just saw a
40:35story where somebody lost 200 pounds on
40:37the ketogenic diets losing the last five
40:39pounds that they want to lose you know
40:41should be easy but for these folks
40:43they’re already lean they’re already
40:45insulin sensitive and their training
40:47it’s such a high work capacity that a
40:50ketogenic diet may not be appropriate
40:52for them they might only be more
40:53appropriate for something else so in
40:56with regards to fasting a lot of people
40:58are playing around with things like time
41:00restricted feeding or intermittent
41:01fasting I think there’s huge potential
41:04benefit there but the people that I’d
41:07seen who are willing to do intermittent
41:09fasting are the same folks that do
41:12CrossFit six days a week they eat six
41:14grams of carbs a month and like they’re
41:17just crazy that elections are like yeah
41:20you know they should be committed yeah
41:22and you know the the tight be on
41:27computer programmer who is laid-back and
41:29mellow the really sedentary that person
41:33would probably do great with the time
41:35restricted feeding which is is what I
41:37recommended the book maybe you do dinner
41:39around five or six pm and then you don’t
41:41make breakfast happen until like 10
41:43penny a.m. or noon and so you’re going
41:46to constrict period of time that you eat
41:48which typically means you’re going to
41:49reduce the total caloric load but
41:52there’s also some benefits of above and
41:54beyond that but I do way I think a
41:56pretty good job of describing what these
41:59things are but then also why you would
42:01want to do and why you might not want to
42:03do them but they are clearly really
42:05great tools the same way that you know
42:07nobody would argue that a screwdriver or
42:09a pair of pliers aren’t great tools but
42:11you certainly don’t want to use the
42:12wrong one for the wrong job
42:14no absolutely right the other the whole
42:16point of our of orchestral in search of
42:19the holy grail of Health power to pose a
42:21question to what is the holy grail of
42:23helpful would you want your answer below
42:25me and that that grill and my mind would
42:27be made of what i call the four pillars
42:29of health which would be sleep food
42:32movement and community and within the
42:35sleep part I expand that and talk about
42:38photo period because it’s not just how
42:40much sleep we get but actually what time
42:42we go to bed what time we wake up how
42:44much light we get on our person and in
42:47our eyes during the day on the types and
42:50amounts of light that we get in our eyes
42:52and on our person at night like when the
42:53Sun Goes Down we should really a dark
42:56environment yeah and you know the the
42:57circadian rhythm piece of all this is
43:00really fascinating and it’s pretty clear
43:03that the person that gets sleep safe
43:08from like 1010 am 26 and is very very
43:12different than the results of the person
43:15who gets leap from midnight to 8am even
43:17though it’s the same amount of rack time
43:20both of those people have a very
43:21different experience of their photo
43:24period and that will influence their
43:26circadian rhythm and the depth of their
43:28sleep and that influences insulin
43:30sensitivity and so even though i spend
43:32an inordinate amount of time talking
43:34about food in the book I could really
43:36make an argument that the sleep and
43:38photo period piece is the most important
43:41part of its a just profoundly important
43:46but then you know clearly getting a our
43:48nutrition dialed-in better is super
43:51important movement or exercise most
43:55people hate exercise everybody loves
43:57moving so you know I call it clipped
43:59movement and the most important
44:00structures there is you find something
44:03that you like that you’re going to keep
44:05going again and again and again I i like
44:08when people do some resistance training
44:10I like people doing a little bit of
44:12sprint interval stuff I think it’s
44:13really good for metabolism i think it’s
44:15a good anti-aging approach but if you
44:17just hate the gym and you would rather
44:19hike and like throw rocks in your
44:22backyard than I can throw rocks in your
44:24backyard that’s way more important that
44:25you just literally share doing so at
44:27least you could do is simply joyce and i
44:29know i love it i love it but i decided
44:31to what I can talk to you for like 12
44:32hours and you are amazing i just a great
44:34great interview with it is your one
44:36final question i’m gonna ask you just
44:37help people could get in touch with you
44:39but you have an interesting take on the
44:40word hypochondria can you just talk to
44:42that a little bit with ya
44:44so again like I i like to be poking
44:48around in the history of words and I was
44:51really mad so some people become kind of
44:55marginally famous in this fitness realm
44:58you know for different things some
44:59people have buns of steel somebody have
45:01some people have rock hard abs my claim
45:04to fame is I know a lot about Putin so i
45:08think it was about the gunshot no
45:10yeah because digesting food just the
45:14interview right now let’s Thank You
45:16lieutenant college student like so so
45:19that gets me thinking about the gut a
45:21lot and so I think about the gut and its
45:23relationship to get you to our overall
45:25health and what night and so I was
45:27country it when this popped into my head
45:29but I was thinking about the word
45:31hypochondria because i was thinking
45:33about so many of the things that go
45:36along the the hypochondria individual
45:39who is this person or the person that
45:41thinks are always sick and they will
45:43always got a health problem and sort of
45:46really doing on that it when you look at
45:49the Latin derivative hypo means below
45:51con dria means cartilage or ribs but
45:56really if you literally look below the
45:59it’s the guy alright and so yeah you
46:03know Hippocrates made the the point that
46:05all disease starts in the guy and he’s
46:07generally accepted as being kind of the
46:10you know Western medical thought and
46:12what not sure
46:14and so I i started poking around I still
46:15haven’t come to a full conclusion on
46:17this but I was trying to figure out did
46:18the hypochondriac individual where they
46:22called that because you know all of
46:24these weird symptoms that nobody could
46:26pin down this is my mom this was the
46:28description I i gave us my mom here at
46:30the beginning
46:32um you know easy all going on the gut
46:35and you know is it the reason why it’s
46:38so hard to pin this stuff down and get a
46:40definitive answers that’s a complex
46:42process and and they don’t you know
46:44oftentimes fall into a perfect category
46:47so I look at that
46:48hypochondria story in a very different
46:51way you know the the hypochondriac
46:54I think oftentimes they have some really
46:57complex health issues going on that are
47:00likely gut derivative or at least have
47:02some gut issues but they’re not severe
47:05enough that it’s going to push them into
47:07a definitive diagnosis of like
47:09autoimmunity or irritable bowel syndrome
47:11or something like that so they’re
47:13feeling something is not right and
47:15they’re expressing that would best they
47:16can and people are starting to say like
47:18you’re crazy not get offerings at that
47:20like almost the dynamics of it
47:22exactly ya know that well my hopeful i
47:26hope that has some impact on the greater
47:28story of medicine and then I’m still
47:30trying to figure out like why the hot
47:32hypochondriac was called you know the
47:36Latin derivatives on below the ribs like
47:38why why did that get a scratch that
47:40because it was some insight recognizing
47:44that there was something going on in the
47:45gut with these people
47:47you know it’s fascinating just doing
47:48these the podcast is broken so many
47:51people and I just for me it’s changed my
47:54life just because learning I I never
47:55even attributed anything to the gut and
47:58so far you include exposing the four
48:00experts that are bringing it right back
48:02to the same thing so i have properties
48:04sounds like he was right on the many
48:06wait right on the money way back when
48:09and how would people find out about you
48:11how they find out about your book wire
48:13to eat how they do that should boost
48:15everything is available on Robins com
48:19wire de is available for pre-order
48:23everywhere books are sold it will be
48:24available in stores and will shift from
48:26barnes & noble amazon and all those
48:29places March 21st robble thank you sir
48:33for joining us it was a great podcast
48:35really appreciated doc huge honor being
48:37on thank you
48:40this episode is sponsored by New Jersey
48:43Foot and Ankle Center in Oradell New
48:45Jersey remember when you have a foot
48:48problem you’ve got a foot doctor in the
48:50family weekend and evening appointments
48:52are available call us at 2012 619 445
48:57once again that’s 2012 6 194 5 thanks
49:03for listening
49:03check out the show notes over at dr. dan your loving the show head over
49:09to iTunes and leave it to review and
49:11look at the next time this episode is
49:16brought to you by inflating their dogs /
49:19more information here a music slate me
49:21to see and hear more of his work visit
49:24Randy Ramos jr. dot-com

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