Kelly Starrett is a coach, physical therapist, author, speaker, and creator of Mobility WOD, which has revolutionized how athletes think about human movement and athletic performance.

His 2013 release, Becoming a Supple Leopard has become a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, In addition to his latest book Deskbound. Kelly and his work have been featured in Tim Ferris’ Four Hour Body, Competitor Magazine, Inside Triathlon, Outside Magazine, Details Magazine, Power Magazine, and the Crossfit Journal.

He teaches the wildly popular Crossfit Movement & Mobility Trainer course and has been a guest lecturer at the American Physical Therapy Association annual convention, Google, the Perform Better Summit, the Special Operations Medical Association annual conference, police departments, and elite military groups nationwide.

  • How to catch the early warning signals that your body sends when there is a musculoskeletal problem
  • Lift with your legs not your back.  But is that totally true?
  • Certain patterns will lead to injury, but are easily fixed!

Links from today’s show:
Mobility WOD Website
Instagram: @MobilityWOD


0:00take back your health now episode 12
0:05you’re listening to the take back your
0:07health now podcast the show that
0:09interviews the top doctors athletes
0:11trainers and entrepreneurs to help you
0:14find the holy grail of health now here’s
0:17your host dr. dan Margolin is doctor Dan
0:25Margolin with another segment of take
0:27back your help now where we pull out all
0:29the stops in search of Health holy grail
0:31we’re really excited to have dr. Kelly
0:33Starrett is a coach physical therapist
0:36author speaker and the creator of
0:38mobility WOD which has revolutionized
0:40how athletes think about human movement
0:42and athletic performance
0:44dr. Kelly’s are waiting to welcome to
0:45the show so how are you I’m women thanks
0:48so much for having us on your vacation
0:49no less
0:50listen I know what I heard I had an
0:52opportunity to speak with you it didn’t
0:53matter and i would have canceled the
0:54vacation I don’t decide to talk i’m sure
0:57your family felt the same way talking
0:59about including stuff
1:01no it’s no problem to tell your kids
1:02that are you really like to see
1:04something awesome with him but you’re
1:05gonna talk about human performance
1:06especially my eight-year-old daughter
1:08she never let my eleven-year-old here is
1:11just rolling your eyes love it I love it
1:15so Kelly just give us a little more
1:17about your bio I know you’ve written
1:18books you just give us a little bit more
1:20detail about your background
1:23well you know I who I’m a good dancer he
1:26didn’t mention that you know little
1:29short is that you know I I sort of
1:31always struggled in my professional
1:33world two worlds and to kind of be
1:36simultaneously i’m i’m a strength
1:37conditioning coach and performance coach
1:39and in that capacity
1:42you know we we work we had a straight
1:44initial Center in San Francisco for the
1:45better part of 12 years we work with
1:48athletes in literally every major sport
1:51you can think of national teams I mean
1:52if you if you can think of a crazy sport
1:55we’ve probably been there and worked at
1:56some level and i’m also physical
1:58therapist which means that I get to see
2:01around the corner little bit not you
2:02know people come to us broken and um or
2:07you know injured or with a problem they
2:09can’t solve you know and this is get
2:11moms and dads and
2:12agent and but with the with the view
2:14from the other side with the view from
2:16the other side from this recognition
2:18coach I can see how we can go from cause
2:21to effect and then as a coach i’m a
2:24taurus physical effect back to cause and
2:26so you know for the better part of a
2:28decade now we spent a lot of time trying
2:30to say hey look there’s a lot of
2:32low-hanging fruit around what we
2:35consider to be real preventable disease
2:37that uni pain isn’t just doesn’t just
2:40happen you know it’s easy to sort of for
2:43us to conceptualize that most muscular
2:46skeletal problems and remember fifty
2:48percent of of the problems of physician
2:51will see our musculoskeletal nature and
2:54what we like to say hail most of those
2:56things both of those things don’t fall
2:59into a pathological category and if you
3:01have night sweats business fever
3:03vomiting nausea underground for weight
3:04loss and weight gain and this is why
3:06you’re seeing your doctor because
3:07there’s something going on that’s
3:08sketchy right right or you get hit by a
3:10car or you sprained your ankle in a
3:12sport ok that’s catastrophic so we take
3:15off pathology and catastrophe and were
3:18left with no a really robust biological
3:22mechanism of mechanical system that has
3:25a lot of what seems like really complex
3:28inputs into and unfortunately for us
3:30because the system is so robust we fall
3:34into what we call normal accident theory
3:36in our bodies and that means and this is
3:38borrowed from a really amazing
3:40anthropologist thinker named Charles
3:43peril from Yale who talks about complex
3:46systems and that the systems that he
3:48talks about are traditionally any kind
3:52of complex technological system and he
3:54says that because these systems are so
3:56complex like a nuclear power plant for
3:57example that we oftentimes can’t see
4:01what’s happening and tell the system
4:04expresses a dysfunction as an accident
4:07and become so given enough time the
4:11system will express its self-organized
4:14criticality which is a shorthand for hey
4:16something’s not working right
4:18I’m not sleeping I haven’t slept for two
4:21years and all the sudden hey eNOS my
4:23tissues are falling apart
4:24or hey I’ve I’ve ignored that nagging
4:27knee pain and then i have a problem or
4:29my shoulder eggs or I sit all day long
4:32and then all the sudden something
4:35happens and it’s really difficult for us
4:37to point back and say 121 because we
4:40can’t necessarily connect the cause and
4:44that immediate effect we have to go back
4:46and say what are the underlying
4:50what are the underlying organizing
4:51principles of the human being that led
4:53us to this very common set of
4:55musculoskeletal problems which are
4:57pathological and which aren’t you know
4:59catastrophic which means hey I’m either
5:03moving poorly and I’ve moved poorly long
5:06enough that it got away with it but then
5:09I can’t get away with it or something’s
5:11happening the body and I’ve come over
5:12tensioned and I in the system is working
5:15at such high sort of high-tension ality
5:19that ultimate expresses itself with a
5:21hole in my kneecap or you know irritable
5:25disc right and and what we want to show
5:27people is that hail all of these things
5:29that we think are preventable diseases
5:31fall into the category of everyday
5:34physical practice and that means we
5:36really firmly believe that they are
5:38preventable but the problem for most of
5:40us as we haven’t been given this
5:42software to this pretty extraordinary
5:44set of of this machinery and what we do
5:48is we get by until we can’t goodbye and
5:51that’s like waiting until the
5:52semi-trailer is burning and it’s going
5:55down a blind alley and the first thing
5:57we have to do is get the fires out of
5:58the semi-trailer and then we gotta back
6:00the thing down the alley and then then
6:03you know that’s really complicated it’s
6:05a lot easier mean mr. Miyagi said the
6:07best best defense no be there so that’s
6:10easy to say but harder to do until the
6:14last 10 years because the internet and
6:17the collaboration and the unification
6:20the the you know Concilium that were
6:23driving from these different physical
6:25practices movement traditions have
6:26really given us clear blueprint for more
6:29sustainable human function everybody
6:32what you’re saying is really a rebel
6:34missionary concept because you look at
6:35as a doctor we sort of talked to fix
6:38things that are broken and you’re saying
6:40hey there’s some warning signals on
6:41along the way that we don’t really have
6:43to wait for it to break down we can
6:45actually jump in when you start to see
6:47those early flashing lights and actually
6:49solve it before it does break down
6:51yeah and you know you know my father’s
6:53position of my grandfather’s position
6:54and physicians are trained to handle
6:58catastrophe and pathology better than
7:00anyone else but around wellness that’s
7:03not in our in our training in our med
7:05schools and and one of the problems is
7:07that you know if you come into the
7:09doctor for musculoskeletal problem you
7:12know you’re asking your physician to get
7:15to the heart of a complex movement
7:17dysfunction you don’t you don’t jump and
7:19land well you don’t run well no one
7:21taught you those things you just sort of
7:23worked it out and you don’t sleep
7:25Angie like a maniac and you’re hydrated
7:28and you’re a stress case and check the
7:30boxes right and then that six to eight
7:33minutes that the physician has to make a
7:34diagnosis in a recommendation
7:36you’re basically the what happens when
7:39you miss using our physicians and we go
7:42in and we lay this problem and you know
7:44you coming with Annie related running
7:46problem or an ankle the right problem i
7:48mean are you expecting a physician to
7:50watch you run know we have completely
7:52moved out the the movement aspect the
7:57mechanical efficiency aspect out of this
8:00musculoskeletal system it’s like you
8:02know haven you know the knees just the
8:04needs a bad design and where’s up mm
8:06it’s not really clear and that’s not
8:09really true and instead what let’s not
8:12put that on a physician because when we
8:13have a real problem surgery is a miracle
8:16and we have a real problem medicine is a
8:18miracle but we need to actually totally
8:21flip i mean and i’m pointing the finger
8:23physical therapist too because it’s
8:25literally we’re waiting around for young
8:27kids to have Osgood slaughters you know
8:29like oh just another kid has knee
8:31problem or seven disease or any other
8:34kind of childhood musculoskeletal
8:35sequelae and the issue here is who is
8:39teaching kids whose teaching young who’s
8:42teaching us we need to empower those
8:44people and we need to empower parents
8:46and teachers to be able to
8:47hey that is goes against the movement
8:50vital signs and I’ll rip this vital sign
8:53concept right off of our friend great
8:56cook and that’s really his concept of
8:57saying hey look you don’t have to have
8:59you know you know you don’t have to be
9:02able to deadlift your bodyweight run a
9:04mile X but you should at least have
9:07these basic ranges of motion and you
9:10should very least be able to express
9:11sound biomechanics you know because if
9:14you ask people hey you know is it ok
9:16with something heavy with around back
9:18and you were like no lift with your legs
9:19not your back and like okay then pick
9:22this bag of dog food up for me and
9:24ninety-nine percent of the time unless
9:25someone’s been trained you’re going to
9:27see them rainbow over and violate the
9:29thing that they just said that you know
9:32was was important and again we’re not
9:35pointing fingers were just saying hey we
9:37have done a really poor job of telling
9:39people what’s important and showing
9:42people a path out of that through a
9:44common physical practice that’s what we
9:46should be getting in physical therapy
9:47and physical therapy and PE and etc etc
9:50and you know what’s interesting is
9:53because we work in such diverse fields i
9:55had 23 Olympians this year from
9:58track-and-field group we have about 30
10:00to Europeans and all but I also spend a
10:02lot of time teaching eight to twelve
10:05year old volleyball girls how to jump
10:07and land and and swing and push up and
10:09embrace and and what we should be able
10:11to connect the dots and the thing I
10:14think has gotten us in trouble is that
10:17where we’ve been valuing the wrong thing
10:20we’ve been asking is hey let’s use the
10:22vital sign of pain pain no pain no pain
10:25go rocket good go get it kid right and
10:29if I’m and also i go i get some paint on
10:32how to deal with it is that no one’s
10:33even taught me how to take a crack at it
10:35so I go see my doctor my physical
10:37therapist they’re both like hey we are
10:39out of pain now but meanwhile you have
10:41you can’t put your arms over your head
10:42you don’t know how to breathe in
10:44stabilize right you don’t even know your
10:46buttons for living your quads are stiff
10:47and you’re into your hips short like you
10:50haven’t sold any of the underlying
10:52problems you’ve just dealt with pain and
10:54the revolution has happened with us so
10:56we’ve seen is that we started focusing
10:58on function so we
11:01want to shift the conversation away from
11:02hey just because it’s not painful
11:04doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong we want
11:07to say is that hey the choices you’re
11:08making one don’t translate up and speed
11:12they don’t translate up and load because
11:14it’s okay round your back we have no
11:15problem with you doing modern dancing
11:18and yoga in fact if you can’t round your
11:20back something’s wrong with your back
11:22right but there’s a time when you’re
11:24saying hey I’m picking something up
11:26I adopt a more formal movement practice
11:28which is expression of stable neutral
11:31organized fine and that’s how I address
11:33the golf ball or that’s how I swim in
11:35the pool and we can say is if I can’t
11:39tell sort of continuous story between
11:41low level functions speed then I have a
11:44problem and so what we do is say look
11:46let’s take the highest levels of sports
11:49and performance and then let’s apply
11:51those principles backwards and we end up
11:53with foundational movement principles
11:55that actually expressed the normal
11:57function of the human being and more
12:00importantly is that when we put people
12:01in better positions we often like nine
12:04percent of time-resolved they’re paying
12:06because we improve the mechanics of the
12:08system so imagine driving your car with
12:10the handbrake on and one of your wheels
12:13is sort of out of limonite you can
12:15you’re still a Ferrari you’re still
12:16gonna beat me because I’m only an f-150
12:18but if you should see if your system
12:20isn’t right it’s not going right you
12:23know so if you walk like if if you walk
12:25like a duck and then you show up with a
12:28bunion on your toe I’m like well you
12:30know you took about five billion steps
12:32and that’s in that position and that’s
12:33not hyperbole that’s literally the
12:35number of steps I mean you know if you
12:37take 10,000 steps a day that’s seventy
12:41thousand steps a week that means if
12:42you’re walking with your feet turned out
12:43like a duck your ankle isn’t working
12:45like an ankle or calf doesn’t get to
12:47work a hundred percent like a calf your
12:50hip is not stable your hamstring asked
12:52to pull off x and you can do it because
12:54you’re a human being and we are awesome
12:56but you can’t run like that you can’t
12:59jump and cut like that and so when we
13:01suddenly scale-up that running you know
13:04that walking into speed or action
13:06because that’s what we’re going to do
13:07eventually we can see a breakdown
13:09that that the sort of apologetics that
13:12it doesn’t matter because it’s not
13:13painful but we can add on that when we
13:16put you into a better position
13:18this is the how we improve function so
13:21look I’m saying that sitting for example
13:24it’s not great for you
13:25there’s a whole bunch of physiologic
13:26things but mainly we see really loss of
13:30function of the human being and so if
13:32you only want to breathe at like sixty
13:34percent of your function its fine sit
13:37down if you want to breathe with a
13:38little bit better function we’re gonna
13:39have to talk about your spinal position
13:41and so we can scale this idea of
13:44function from low-level processes like
13:47respiration up the high-level processes
13:49like Olympic running and sprinting right
13:51to Olympic lifting to roll and and this
13:55all comes down to daily practice and
13:57that these concepts should be able to be
14:00seen and spotted by everyone and the
14:03fact that we have moved so far away from
14:06you know what it is to be a human being
14:08and that’s really simple you know human
14:10being should we be wearing high-heeled
14:11shoes all the time yes or no
14:13well do did the human being exists to
14:16have the heel a centimeter off the
14:17ground and really so it’s ok where are
14:21your shoes but understand that that’s a
14:22compromise if you don’t want to sleep
14:24that’s ok you know have a newborn baby
14:27flatties coast i guarantee your search
14:28can be wrecked right but we know that
14:31you’re going to have that’s a compromise
14:33and we’re going to see is now we can get
14:35away from sort of shaming people and say
14:38hey look here practices that lead us to
14:40better function and then in the long
14:43haul we don’t see the expressions of the
14:46breakdown and that self-organized
14:47criticality and once again this is the
14:51domain of everyone this is should not be
14:53held in secret school program by the
14:56doctor the physical therapist the chiro
14:58this is something that every mom should
14:59know every teacher should know every
15:01Louie teacher should know and then we
15:03just scale it right up and and that’s
15:05what’s happening people become so
15:07sophisticated information actually
15:08available to like the last 10 years and
15:11it wasn’t actually there or is it is it
15:13really that that much its infantile kind
15:16of stage or how long have been around
15:20well you know it’s naive of us to say
15:24that we’ve figured out finally
15:26because i think for as long as you’re in
15:28human beings we’ve been obsessed with
15:29function and you know you as a physician
15:33opposition may pool I can argue that
15:35tradition but that was of people trying
15:37to solve a set of problems right and you
15:40know we can then in our modern
15:41sensibilities say what what is good out
15:44of that what you know what we call out
15:46of that well let’s take the same thing
15:47and say well have you ever met Joseph
15:50Pilates you know Joseph was trying to
15:53solve a set of problems and his thinking
15:56is organized around the primary
15:58principles of how the human being is
16:01wired and it’s the same he inherited
16:03that from dance he inherited from yoga
16:06oh there’s yoga this thousand-year
16:09tradition of how to breathe and how to
16:11stabilize and how to get your hip
16:12mechanically efficient and take your
16:14body through a full range of motion and
16:16what you’ll see is I think these
16:19principles have been there all along but
16:22they’ve been sort of hidden in the guise
16:25of movement traditions what we need to
16:27do about much better job of is is
16:29understanding the primary principles
16:32underneath all these traditions you know
16:34if you look at you know that was a
16:39temporary who is that
16:40tempranillo get the guys name from the
16:43the sprinter from unbroken right that
16:46he’s the guy who when you know Anjali
16:49Anjali made that movie and no he is a
16:51high level has gone to the Olympics when
16:53he’s caught by the Japanese and tortured
16:55and then anyway right you it always
16:57about if you go into the actual
16:58biography unbroken and look at his
17:02mechanics running it’s jesse owens it’s
17:05he is he is Usain Bolt and that you’re
17:08going to see that when the human being
17:11functions well right then what we see is
17:14amazing output but the human being it’s
17:18important to realize how we have involve
17:20much in the last twelve thousand years I
17:21mean physically maybe our gut biome this
17:24change our brains are smaller because we
17:26gluten or something but but the shoulder
17:28is still the shoulder and the ankle is
17:30still the ankle and I think people have
17:33a really remarkable job over thousands
17:35of years trying to inform us about what
17:38best practices look like and we we sort
17:41of understand some of those principles
17:42you know because you know if you were in
17:45gymnastics is a kid
17:46there’s a whole bunch of foundation
17:47principles in gymnastics that makes you
17:49a really good mover right if you were in
17:52dance or or classical ballet training
17:54you know you know they may talk about
17:56lying and talking but really it’s saying
17:58here’s your pelvis here’s how its
18:00relationship to your lumbar spine and
18:02here’s how you’re going to move and
18:03absorb and when you jump and land and so
18:05once again i think these things have
18:08been there but now we’re because of the
18:10internet were able to connect the dots
18:13in these disparate communities of
18:15function and then the rest of the you
18:19know medicine world has come along and
18:21said hey here’s here’s practices and
18:23then we can really start to talk tie the
18:25dots you know together the most
18:28important book I think someone could
18:29read right now as CEO Wilson’s
18:31conciliation sort of recognized or
18:33reference at but it’s really about the
18:35unification of knowledge and
18:38understanding that to be a specialist we
18:40have to be generalists now we have to be
18:42understand what are the foundations of
18:44nutrition was how do i get my baby to go
18:47to sleep better write those
18:49conversations are the same conversations
18:51I have with you know my major league
18:54baseball pictures here’s how you should
18:56eat to fuel here’s how you go to sleep
18:59after stressful you know
19:01world series game and and that’s what we
19:03want people understand is that these
19:05primary principles are becoming
19:07something you don’t have to be a deep
19:08nerd grew up in a you know monastic
19:11tradition gymnast Olympic lifting Russia
19:13you have access to this now because the
19:16podcasting world because of the books
19:18that people riding and because we’ve
19:19seen the growing sophistication of of
19:23the people were actually delivering
19:25movement traditions like yoga and
19:26Pilates and CrossFit and Olympic lifting
19:29we’re seeing that people are becoming a
19:31lot more savvy because where you go
19:32driven back to the fact that a doctor if
19:34you look at the word itself it derives
19:37from the word teacher and it sort of
19:39lost that you know it actually lost that
19:41has become more of a
19:42technician in other words you go to a
19:43doctor at this time a lot of times
19:45you’ll get somebody I’m gonna do
19:47something for you know like you have
19:48foot pain i’m going to give you an
19:51injection or you know I mean rather than
19:52a teaching process what i love is that
19:55you really educating people and if I
19:57were to ask you like what if you were
19:59just saying what percentage of knowledge
20:01regarding all the joints and all do we
20:04actually have to we have him in a little
20:05bit of a guest pundit would you say that
20:07we have a hundred percent of the
20:08knowledge that we need to functional out
20:11joints to go through a lifetime without
20:13getting beat not sure what’s your
20:14opinion on them
20:15yeah i think i think what should we do
20:20now could really make a case for how to
20:25make you know really resilient people
20:28you know and anti fragile people because
20:30i think you you bring up a really good
20:31point and that point is bodies are
20:34designed to be a hundred and ten years
20:36old i’m talking about your knees and
20:37your back like we you know one thing
20:40that we talked about with anyone who has
20:42chronic pain right back pain for example
20:43is that when we do MRIs or you know look
20:47at the spines of anyone who is of age
20:50there’s a patina of age on there we see
20:53to generate this is a herniated disc we
20:56see bone spurs and ugliness and I trust
20:59for lack of better word yet most of
21:02those people are pain-free and literally
21:04every single person has something in
21:06there in there in there back which tells
21:08me that our bodies are designed to be
21:13able to withstand this general changes
21:15means i have a lot of slack in the
21:17system to buffer incomplete mechanics I
21:21have a lot of buffer in the system to
21:23say I’m didn’t move well for a long time
21:25until I got religion and then you know I
21:27got better but then we’re gonna outlive
21:30is our gonads you can see that’s really
21:32the only thing we’re going to live but
21:33the but the truth is around the human
21:36being is we are not fragile and it’s not
21:39we you know if we look at what you know
21:42we should be able to you know here’s a
21:45good example the number one reason is
21:47you know that people end up in nursing
21:49homes in the United States is that can’t
21:51get up off the ground independently they
21:52fall on the ground and they’re stuck
21:54in nursing homes in japan and in Asia
21:57where people toilet on the ground and
21:59sleep on the ground that means i have to
22:00get it off the ground
22:02you don’t see hip disease you don’t see
22:05lumbar disease and fall risk and the
22:08elderly drops to zero
22:09why because we get up and down off the
22:12ground and if you ask your grandparents
22:14when was the last time you got up and
22:16off the ground
22:1730 times ahead like Vietnam you know
22:20when I was you know I mean when im so
22:23what we’re seeing is that you know
22:25because we live in this sort of modern
22:28air-conditioned the world we sit in our
22:30chair we go to our car we end up just
22:32sort of neglecting the capacities of the
22:35body we don’t take the hip through its
22:37full range of motion that you suddenly
22:38your ankle hurts and then then it turns
22:40out you don’t have any Anchorage
22:41emotional have you ever not seen a
22:43toddler squat down you know people are
22:46like oh it’s the Scottish if it’s the
22:48anthropometry you don’t understand i
22:50have this is my family’s head I’m
22:52likewell you squatted as a child
22:54so what happened what happened was that
22:56we sort of just became modern products
23:00of the environment just later physicians
23:01have just the way people have we didn’t
23:04value sort of understanding the the
23:07whole human being we didn’t we didn’t
23:09teach it so what you know everyone comes
23:11from some some some place and if it
23:14wasn’t taught our valued then why why
23:17would you know about it necessarily and
23:18so we don’t like I think the key here is
23:21understanding that we can ask that
23:24question what does it mean to be human
23:25being and then we can really get to the
23:27bottom of what’s your physical practice
23:29and i’m not saying exercise I’m saying
23:30did you breathe hard today did you move
23:33enough today did you sleep you know
23:36did you drink any water at all or did
23:37you just drink diet coke and coffee you
23:40know are you a stress case you know did
23:42you do you have five cups of coffee and
23:44then two glasses of wine while you’re
23:46telling me you don’t know how to wake up
23:47and you’re telling me you don’t have to
23:48sleep you know and what we’re seeing is
23:50that people are trying their best to
23:53solve their own human condition and anna
23:56and something that my wife points out
23:57all the time and it’s in our book desk
23:59found is that and this is not causation
24:02of course just good correlation
24:05but it is interesting that gym
24:08memberships in the united states have
24:09perfectly track the obesity rate in the
24:11united states which tells us for as
24:14outsiders as health professionals the
24:16people are worthy working hard and
24:18trying to do the right thing they’re
24:19like oh well I gotta get healthy go to
24:21the gym then you go to the gym and you
24:22know what do you not have you been
24:24taught how to move or how to train your
24:26exercise know so you go to the treadmill
24:28and you’re like I can push the on button
24:29right side my iPad and always know who
24:32teaches us these things and you know I
24:35think that going forward what we can say
24:38hey look there’s never a time where the
24:41human being
24:41can’t regain function or we can optimize
24:45so the environmental loads on the human
24:47there’s never time we can’t walk more
24:50you know you know it’s there’s never
24:52time we can’t practice getting up and
24:54down off the ground there’s never a time
24:55where I mean if you look at the Spartan
24:57Race joda seen as a good friend of ours
24:59the heart and soul like that the Spartan
25:02thing if I said there’s one Spartan
25:03movement in the Spartan races ever be
25:06like it’s the Burpee what the bullets
25:08the burping is getting up and down off
25:09the ground that’s all it is
25:11and then it’s interesting that
25:12maintaining that integrity just using
25:15the system is what all we need to do we
25:18don’t necessarily have to be really
25:20strong although that helps you know we
25:23don’t have to have a huge vo2max hello
25:25that helps and what we’re finding now is
25:28that we are being able to nail put some
25:30nails on the board and say this is a
25:32this is a healthy vital signs that
25:35vo2max your ability to uptake oxygen you
25:39know being ability to breathe hard under
25:40high aerobic stress loads is important
25:43predictor of mortality that hip strength
25:46and power is it really interesting
25:48predictor of mortality that range of
25:51you’re in your ability to get up and
25:52down off the ground interesting well
25:54documented projective mortality
25:56well those are easy those are all
25:57trainable systems you just have to make
26:00sure that we’re doing those things and
26:02as professionals we just need to tell
26:05here’s what’s important it’s not take
26:07this tumor can do this thing and you
26:09know like there’s no there’s no
26:11shortcuts to this i mean the the
26:14the revolution and performance nutrition
26:15right now way forward is whole foods
26:17right i mean you know your times
26:20yesterday how our day before had an
26:22article from Manchester that you know
26:24man you who spent a ton of money hiring
26:27a chef a nutritionist to make
26:29locally-sourced whole foods available to
26:32their athletes and guess what their
26:34injuries fall athletes bond together
26:36mean these are the foundations of being
26:39a human and I and I want people
26:40understand there are no hacks it’s only
26:43practice and process simple Kelly let me
26:45ask you this what would be like how
26:47would somebody assess their own friends
26:49week is to say a middle-aged person like
26:51what would be somewhere like testing to
26:54see what their hip strength is how they
26:56do that well you know the problem with
26:59the way and this is important because we
27:01want people to be able to begin a
27:04no one of the easiest let me back up
27:06when we begin a conversation about this
27:09has become curious because it’s you know
27:10if this is practice this is just never
27:13gonna have it nailed and then I’m gonna
27:15have to travel and gets behind someone’s
27:17gonna change that’s ok so what we need
27:19people to do is have a rough idea of you
27:23know what is required so if you had a
27:24yoga practice for example you did yoga
27:27in the course of that hour of yoga you
27:30would take yourself through all of the
27:31range of motion of the body and you’d be
27:34breathing and you learn how to stabilize
27:37and move and and that would that would
27:40make you strong enough to go ski that
27:42would make you strong enough to carry
27:43your baby a mile right but that’s a
27:45important practice at least takes is the
27:48joints through their basic range of
27:49motion and starts to begin conversations
27:51about basic organization stability so
27:54built into these moving practices are
27:57you know interesting conversations about
27:59how I can’t do that and the end you know
28:02before we start putting sort of you know
28:05lines in the sand of here’s what every
28:07human being should be able to do right
28:09we can say is let’s have a conversation
28:11about range of motion for example just I
28:13don’t care if you can squat a hundred
28:15pounds 200 pounds 50 pounds this is a
28:18simple test for hip range of motion and
28:20ankle range of motion ready for it it’s
28:22very very sophisticated put your feet
28:25together keep your heels on the ground
28:27sound and squat down like you’re out of
28:30fire like you’re having dinner in
28:32Thailand like you’re taking a poop in
28:34the woods and if you can’t do that
28:36without falling over or if you can’t do
28:38that without your heels coming up off
28:40the ground guess what you’ve begun a
28:42conversation about your function and you
28:44can become curious about any of the
28:46potential limiters to that right you
28:50no can you can you walk I mean we do
28:52this thing in our house whenever we can
28:54the winners little harder we still do it
28:56we walk at night to go for a little walk
28:58after dinner and we walked barefoot
29:00walking miles barefoot and if you ask
29:02people walking around barefoot they
29:03would look at you like you have and you
29:05know an arm growing out of your face and
29:07and the thing is they’re like are you
29:10kidding my feet I tap you’re like that’s
29:12how we keep your feet are you can even
29:14be barefoot you have to wear this foot
29:17coffin insulated you know protected are
29:20like your feet aren’t even feed anymore
29:21so what we want people to do you know we
29:25in our work in our books and our
29:27teachings on our courses really have
29:29have established we think are the
29:31benchmarks of range of motion function
29:33but all of those things ultimately tie
29:36into movements and that’s what’s
29:38important it’s not about musculature
29:40it’s about movements
29:42here’s a good example can you squat to a
29:44chair without any changes without
29:48collapsing your arches and without any
29:50rounding or changes of your spinal
29:52position that’s that’s just lowering
29:54your center of gravity you know picking
29:56something up that’s that’s all we did
29:59can you hinge over like you’re leaning
30:02into your trunk and keep your spine
30:04straight because that’s that’s that’s
30:07what a train human being can do and
30:09that’s how we develop most function and
30:12when we start tying this together for
30:13people get away from muscles get away
30:15from tissues get back to positions and
30:18movement and it becomes very very simple
30:20for us to say I can’t do that today what
30:22happened while i ran a hundred miles
30:24last week and today my ankles are in my
30:26calves are tight ok I found something i
30:28can be curious about right but you don’t
30:30know I’m just thinking action location
30:33is an elderly patient probably in her
30:35seventies ok and she was a dancer as a
30:37as a child and I can you know you’re
30:39talking about hunched over so many
30:41people come in they’re bent over there
30:43hunched over but she’s perfect posture
30:45and you can see that she was a dancer
30:47even though she’s in her seventies you
30:49know and it’s just I’m just as you’re
30:51talking about that i could absolutely
30:52see that you never know that
30:56so what’s great is posture is a is a
30:59derivative of the Latin word for
31:01position that’s that’s what it means
31:04position position of the spine but we
31:06have somehow like who brags about bad
31:09positioning I’m not bad position but
31:11you’ll have bad posture you know they
31:13just it’s a throwaway but this woman had
31:16fun of foundational training of however
31:18spine moves how her head her character
31:21they use words like carriage right but
31:23that is the functional language of the
31:26spine and what you’ll find you know what
31:31did I just hear that you know people go
31:32to the hospital they get pneumonia right
31:34and you know you know and they get
31:37pneumonia because they’re laying there
31:38and not breathing shit deeply you know
31:40because we don’t teach people how to
31:43breathe up unless you’re in Pilates or
31:44yoga or had a robot and I mean unless
31:46you found out one of these movement
31:49traditions it’s not on our radar so what
31:51we do for patients we give them that
31:53little spirometer I need you to blow
31:54into this device
31:56why why do i need to blow this device so
31:58you actually use your lungs through
32:00their full range of motion but you know
32:02that’s something we could teach every
32:04person how to do here’s how your spine
32:08is can we see this reference position
32:10you shouldn’t be afraid of moving back
32:12we can come back to that shape and then
32:14we can begin to evaluate you know is it
32:17ok to be sitting down in a c-shape all
32:21day long will take a breath there you
32:23and now your pelvic floor is compromised
32:25and that’s why the adult diaper industry
32:27is a 1.2 billion dollar industry in the
32:30United States because the pelvic floor
32:32is just a sister of the diaphragm of our
32:35breathing and if this before disorganize
32:38if we’re not in good shape
32:40I our body does this thing that I called
32:42positional inhibition basically kind
32:44light switches get turned off so if you
32:47squat with your feet out and you’re
32:49walking your feet out your the hip
32:51rotators things like glue Mead don’t
32:54work very well and when you walk into
32:55move with your feet straight guess what
32:57happens your feet your hips turn on that
33:00when you’re not upright good posture
33:02position it’s easier to breathe when
33:04you’re hunched over start turning light
33:06switches off and that’s that’s the route
33:08so when we start to show people hate you
33:10don’t have to fear of being in the
33:11c-shape it feels great to relax but
33:13understand that maybe a compromising
33:15function if that’s your only shaped like
33:17amazing you don’t really hear this you
33:19know I mean I’ve been to a lot of
33:21seminars and lectures on health and just
33:23to look at it from this is such a unique
33:25perspective how I mean like just going
33:27back for a second how did you get this
33:29look what was it in your you that made
33:31you even find out of there some way that
33:35was like wow look it’s funny my you know
33:41I paddled on the u.s. can kayak team and
33:43I was a high level skiers a kid and I
33:45was lucky enough that you discovered
33:48early on that I was good at spotting
33:49patterns and and spotting pattern
33:52recognition me a good athlete and a good
33:54learner because I could see what I
33:56needed to do to be able to pick it up
33:57and then I had some really excellent
33:59technical instruction and the way that I
34:02was instructed was from a technically
34:04excellent very precise background you
34:06know when the wing week up ski champion
34:09is diagramming the turn and you’re 12
34:10years old you think well this is how we
34:11learn everything is this technical then
34:14if you ask my friends I have been
34:16obsessed with the same sets of things
34:18like this I’ve been obsessed with this
34:20for as long as I’ve been around except
34:22that you know I tried to put into good
34:25work i was a paddling on the u.s. can
34:29kayak team and guess what I’ve moved
34:31poorly didn’t have these range of motion
34:34vital signs that kind of check i had
34:36asthma so I’d a breathing problem i had
34:38to breathe on my neck all the time
34:39because I’m i eating wasn’t great and I
34:42was probably stressed out etc etc
34:44chronically inflamed and guess what my
34:46hand went numb one day and you know and
34:49I started looking around and I asked i
34:52was like AG got this is this normal
34:53anyone going out to know what happened
34:55time and I was like you knew my hand was
34:57gonna go numb you know when I looked at
34:59all the women on the team a lot of them
35:00had shoulder surgery like all of them a
35:03hundred percent women on the US
35:04communicating that shoulder surgery at
35:05the time I was like so if my daughter
35:07wants to grow up I can basically
35:08guarantee or shoulder problem and
35:10they’re like no we ask well no one’s
35:12asked don’t ask that question and that’s
35:14ultimately what led me into physical
35:16therapy school but I went to kick ass
35:19physical therapy school really really
35:22smart really good just just clinically
35:24just solid comma i also started a gym
35:29with my wife and what ended up happening
35:30was that you know coaching a lot of
35:33people in the foundations of movement
35:36gave me the insight to be able to see
35:39what was going on and I was like a
35:41heater ACL back in college didn’t hear
35:43they’re like how do you know I’m like
35:44well because you jump and land terribly
35:46in you spring that ankle and you can see
35:48you could suddenly the movement practice
35:51right the traditional the way we’re
35:54moving teaching deadlifting squatting
35:55pull-ups push-ups the language universal
35:59language of training was really we saw
36:01it as an easy diagnostic tool we can
36:03literally see in the compensations of
36:06how people are going there are problems
36:08and then given enough time we started to
36:10say well here’s what we should be able
36:12to do and here the root positions of
36:14this and then we have started to be able
36:16to anticipate the compensations so if
36:18someone was missing overhead range of
36:21I know what they’re going to swim
36:23because you know I know what they’re
36:24gonna swim so it’s gonna look like no
36:26matter how technical they are because
36:27they physically can’t get into the shape
36:29and that means that we can sort of jump
36:31ahead and begin to anticipate in
36:33efficiencies and more importantly grab
36:35them when they’re still incomplete
36:37mechanics and that’s the issues that
36:39most of us are just running around with
36:41incomplete mechanics and lo and behold
36:43if we address them and we’re always
36:45constantly adjusting them then we can
36:47catch them before they become what we
36:49call incidents which is hey it’s a
36:52little sore or it’s swollen or I don’t
36:54know what’s going on
36:55I can still do my spore I still want
36:57more about my life not gonna see a
36:58doctor yet but the next phase of that is
37:01injury right that the pain has gotten so
37:03severe or am I can’t occupy my role as
37:06society or work or family that I have to
37:08help and so what we want to do is
37:10connect the dots between incomplete
37:12mechanics incident and injury and a
37:15training environment is the easiest way
37:17to do that so I’ve actually heard you
37:19talk a little bit about I guess you do
37:21have an injury working some of the
37:23muscles that are close cousin to it
37:25how does that does that work there was
37:27something said about that
37:28yeah well you know and the issue is hey
37:31if you know they’re let’s let’s take one
37:34of the languages from one of our early
37:35masters one of our genius masters her
37:37name is um I either wall maybe heard of
37:41walton before right but she she is a
37:44structure it’s a way of dressing the
37:46fascial systems that connection your
37:48body some it’s a model of addressing
37:50fashionable restriction
37:51well she says we’re the rats get in is
37:53not always where they true suit right
37:55and you can imagine
37:57will you go back to the handbrake on the
37:58car analogy if i drive my car with a
38:01handbrake on the wheel starts to get hot
38:04Michael smell my brakes right do I have
38:07a brake problem
38:08where’s the handbrake set problem and so
38:10what we try to get people to do is
38:12hey if you become curious about what’s
38:15happening at the muscles and tissues
38:17above the joint or above the area and
38:20below the area then you might resolve
38:22the efficiency of the system so if
38:25you’re having meat cat pain right little
38:27runners knee kind of thing you know
38:29little jumpers knee and turns out your
38:32rectus femoris or quads are very very
38:34stiff you lack for in motion your hip
38:37chances are somehow thats related to
38:40your incomplete mechanics of your knee
38:42right your body can’t buffer you’re in
38:44fluid mechanics and starts to send out
38:46pain which is an important vital sign
38:48that things may not be working right or
38:50optimally and just by giving people that
38:54hey if you have type cat scan that
38:57affect your knee and knee pain yes
38:58that’s right the calves are strangely
39:01cross the knee and the right connected
39:03to the knee
39:03no and if your clothes are stiff they
39:05strange how they’re directly connected
39:07to the knee and you know I think we just
39:10have done such a poor job of giving
39:13people the basics that you know we have
39:16to go and do some remedial learning and
39:18teach people how to take a crack at
39:20fixing themselves other
39:21guys we’re never gonna get ahead of the
39:23opiate problem in the United States the
39:25chronic pain problems United States the
39:27surgeries write a lot of these things we
39:29could nip in the bud and we can improve
39:31people’s function if we gave them a ball
39:33and show them how to address their soft
39:35tissue restrictions very simple as a
39:36first first offense at least right yeah
39:39no it’s okay if i want to ask you like
39:40what is the holy grail of Health and it
39:43would be along these lines have really
39:45keeping your flexibility up getting your
39:48joints to go through their range of
39:49motion and preventing injuries in that
39:52well i would say it that’s a component
39:54of it right that’s that’s the physical
39:56care just a thing that scared or nervous
39:57system around you know the reason we
39:59have a nervous system is two cents
40:00change the environment right so that we
40:02can move and reproduce and defend
40:04ourselves i mean that’s that’s literally
40:06why we have nervous systems and the
40:08question is you know if I’m not caring
40:12caring for that carriage for that
40:13machine for my central nervous system
40:15and that’s a problem
40:17and-and-and you we organize our whole
40:19thinking around sort of central nervous
40:21system for spine first and the reason is
40:23no we see that losses of function an
40:26organization around the spine lead us to
40:28the lot grace decreases and function but
40:30people can relate this you sprained your
40:32ankle for its it’s annoying
40:34you may be on crutches it kind of GIMP
40:36around a little bit you know you get on
40:38with your life
40:39you might even be able to do your sports
40:40though what happened when you tweet your
40:42back boom you’re on your back
40:44life is over you can’t breathe your body
40:47said hey you have tweaked the thing that
40:51makes us us and we’re gonna shut you
40:53down because it’s very serious and
40:54that’s that’s or the idea but it’s
40:56interesting because remember we are
40:58system of system so you know is if you
41:01don’t eat well if you know if your
41:04stress case if you don’t move enough
41:06when we start to see all of those things
41:08impact and drag the ultimate the overall
41:11physiology of the system they’re all
41:13important it’s all important things you
41:15said that my wife tells me all the time
41:16is about drinking a lot of water and
41:18also i know that you mentioned even with
41:20salt on what’s how much water should
41:21somebody drink throughout the day
41:23well turns out one of the problems is
41:25that you know if we’re not drinking any
41:27water this is an issue but you don’t you
41:29know we have this really powerful thirst
41:32mechanism built in its called thirst and
41:35if we have people just drink when
41:37they’re thirsty
41:38that would solve all of the functional
41:40problems that we have got around run
41:42day-to-day right i’m not talking about
41:44optimal hydration for performance I’m
41:46not like how do we manage a marathon
41:49hold I’m not talk about that right but
41:51what I’m saying is that if you’re
41:53you should be drinking now the key here
41:54is to think we need to be drinking
41:56actually absorbing the water we drink so
41:58what we recommend for people to do is
42:00because people are going crazy drinking
42:02mass amounts of water to pee and all the
42:03time but they’re not absorbing the water
42:05with drinking so if you just take a
42:06pinch of sea salt pinch the right
42:08technical term ready pinch and drop that
42:11sea salt and you’re right there’s bad
42:13that’s right page and it you know and
42:16sometimes we want something less don’t
42:18worry about a pinch and 12 ounce glass
42:19of water
42:20you are going to basically absorb the
42:22water you drink and what you’ll find
42:23that you don’t get is thirsty because
42:25you’re not just picking out that water
42:27Wow easy and guess what happened your
42:30joints will be better hydrated your
42:32tissues will slide better
42:33you’re not just sort of like grilled
42:35cheese is a human being you’re actually
42:36this dynamic moving person
42:38yeah Kellyanne what a great interview
42:41men of the the listeners are going to
42:43get so much as help even want to know
42:45more about you know more about Kelly’s
42:47dr. Kelly step how would they get find
42:49out about how to get in touch with you
42:51well you know one of the things we are
42:53the center part of this is our business
42:55is called mobility WOD wods and workout
42:58of the day mobility workout of the day
43:00and we have an on-ramp program we do a
43:03daily 10 to 15 minutes
43:06follow along session where we begin to
43:08explain your body explain how it works
43:11will show you how to mobilize and
43:12improve your tissues to address pain we
43:15have about 23 24 hundred videos on the
43:18site you know that you can range from
43:20what shushing my kid where to
43:22that’s how do i pick something up off
43:23the ground more effectively um you know
43:26we have I think a really good on train
43:28to our model is the book we wrote last
43:29year called desk-bound which is sort of
43:32about you know saying hey what is the
43:34habit of the human being how do I move
43:35but if you just follow us mobility WOD
43:38calm you know you see this at mobility
43:40WOD instagram you can begin to see how
43:42we think about the world but a
43:43desk-bound is a great entree into this
43:46and then you can get into the textbooks
43:47you want
43:48sounds great kelly starrett thank you so
43:50much for joining us sir is a great
43:53greatly appreciated my pleasure thanks a
43:56this episode is sponsored by New Jersey
43:59Foot and Ankle Center in Oradell New
44:01Jersey remember when you have a foot
44:04problem you’ve got a foot doctor in the
44:06family weekend and evening appointments
44:08are available call us at 2012 619 445
44:13once again that’s 2012 619 445 thanks
44:19for listening
44:20check out the show notes over at dr. dan
44:22speaks dot-com if you’re loving the show
44:24head over to iTunes and leave us a
44:26review and we’ll catch you next time
44:30this episode is brought to you by
44:33related products / more information or
44:36emotions a slate me to see and hear more
44:39of his work visit Randy Ramos jr.

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